Holder to Paul: Obama can use drones on US soil

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Holder to Paul: Obama can use drones on US soil

Postby Woodruff Star » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:55 pm

From Politico:

President Barack Obama could order the use of deadly force against an American inside the United States, Attorney General Eric Holder said in a letter to Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) released Tuesday.

Paul and other senators had asked various administration officials whether deadly drones strikes like the ones the U.S. carries out in Pakistan, Yemen and other foreign countries could ever be used in the U.S. Paul said he would seek to block the confirmation of John Brennan as Central Intelligence Agency director if the question was not answered. (Brennan's nomination was endorsed by the Senate Intelligence Committee Tuesday afternoon in a 12-3 vote.)

In the one-page letter dated Monday, Holder said: "The U.S. government has not carried out drone strikes in the United States and has no intention of doing so." The attorney general argued that law enforcement is best suited to resolve such threats "in this country."

However, Holder says that in situations akin to the 1941 assault on Pearl Harbor or the September 11, 2001 attacks, the president might have to order the use of deadly force in the U.S.

"The question you have posed is entirely hypothetical, unlikely to occur, and one we hope no President will ever have to confront," Holder wrote. "It is possible, I supposed, to imagine an extraordinary circumstance in which it would be necessary and appropriate under the Constitution and applicable laws of the United States for the President to authorize the military to use lethal force within the territory of the United States. For example, the President could concievably have no choice but to authorize the military to use such force if necessary to protect the homeland in the circumstances of a catastrophic attack like the ones suffered on December 7, 1941, and September 11, 2001."

Paul said in a statement that he was deeply disturbed by Holder's views.

"The U.S. Attorney General’s refusal to rule out the possibility of drone strikes on American citizens and on American soil is more than frightening – it is an affront the Constitutional due process rights of all Americans,” Paul said.

Police, of course, regularly and lawfully use deadly force inside the U.S. in cases where criminals are presenting a imminent threat to others. They can also use lethal force under the so-called "fleeing felon" rule to stop a dangerous individuals.

However, the Obama Administration has claimed authority to use armed drones abroad under a more relaxed standard of imminence, embracing situations where an individual has organized terrorist attacks in the past and has not renounced such activity. In addition, the administration has carried out so-called "signature strikes," where a group of suspected terrorists is attacked based on their pattern of activity even though the U.S. lacks specific intelligence about their identities.
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Re: Holder to Paul: Obama can use drones on US soil

Postby Absit Invidle1 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:31 pm

Imagine the outcry if one of the Attorney Generals under G. W. Bush had made this statement.

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Re: Holder to Paul: Obama can use drones on US soil

Postby beaudiddley » Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:52 pm

Absit Invidle1 wrote:Imagine the outcry if one of the Attorney Generals under G. W. Bush had made this statement.


Apparently.....democrats have more power than republicans.......they can do as they wish without approval from anyone...
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Re: Holder to Paul: Obama can use drones on US soil

Postby Stevology » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:45 am

What about this little clause in the "Oath of Enlistment" that all armed forces members must swear to - including the POTUS?

I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies,foreign and domestic;
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Re: Holder to Paul: Obama can use drones on US soil

Postby Woodruff Star » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:30 am

Stevology wrote:What about this little clause in the "Oath of Enlistment" that all armed forces members must swear to - including the POTUS?

I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies,foreign and domestic;

Well, in order to defend the Constitution, don't you need to abide by its rules?

Like these two little clauses...

Amendment 5 - The right to Due Process
Amendment 6 - The right to Trial by Jury
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Re: Holder to Paul: Obama can use drones on US soil

Postby Stevology » Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:04 pm

Woodruff Star wrote:
Stevology wrote:What about this little clause in the "Oath of Enlistment" that all armed forces members must swear to - including the POTUS?

I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies,foreign and domestic;


Well, in order to defend the Constitution, don't you need to abide by its rules?

Like these two little clauses...

Amendment 5 - The right to Due Process
Amendment 6 - The right to Trial by Jury


Of course you do but if you are committing terrorist acts such as killing Americans citizens - do those amendments apply if you are killed in the process?

You are speaking as though this is already happening and Americans should be in fear of being attacked by their own government.

Has Obama stated he would allow the killing of American citizens without due process?
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Re: Holder to Paul: Obama can use drones on US soil

Postby Woodruff Star » Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:12 pm

He has already used it on American citizens outside of US soil and his Attorney General has stated that he has the right to use drone strikes on US soil.

In the hypothetical, even if they are committing acts of terrorism, they are still American citizens. Timothy McVeigh committed an act of terrorism. He was still an American citizen, and he still held the right to due process and trial by jury.
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Re: Holder to Paul: Obama can use drones on US soil

Postby Stevology » Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:32 pm

Woodruff Star wrote:He has already used it on American citizens outside of US soil and his Attorney General has stated that he has the right to use drone strikes on US soil.

In the hypothetical, even if they are committing acts of terrorism, they are still American citizens. Timothy McVeigh committed an act of terrorism. He was still an American citizen, and he still held the right to due process and trial by jury.


I have to disagree with you on this.

If you are talking about Anwar Alwaki (sp) then that's a bad example. If you are waging war on your country then you are an enemy of the state. Yes, if you are captured then you should have your day in court. But, if you are killed while participating then so be it.

Holder said we could use drones on US soil but he did not say the government would violate an American's civil liberties.

Timothy McVeigh was caught, tried and executed - that's a big difference than collaborating with terrorists and being killed in the process.
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Re: Holder to Paul: Obama can use drones on US soil

Postby Woodruff Star » Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:54 pm

McVeigh WAS a terrorist.

If we had drones back then, using this AG's statements, it is reasonable to think that that US citizen would have been denied his 5th and 6th amendment rights.
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Re: Holder to Paul: Obama can use drones on US soil

Postby Stevology » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:50 pm

Woodruff Star wrote:McVeigh WAS a terrorist.

If we had drones back then, using this AG's statements, it is reasonable to think that that US citizen would have been denied his 5th and 6th amendment rights.


Now you are just speculating. We have drones today and criminals are being killed inside the US all the time...no trial...no jury.

Just like Rand Paul...making an issue out of a non-issue. If he was so serious about drones - why not push legislation limiting the use of drones? Instead he holds the floor of the Senate for hours and hours about a non issue...why? He wants to appease to his far right supporters...that's why!
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