Dutch Fork 56 River Bluff 14

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Re: Dutch Fork 56 River Bluff 14

Postby Mania » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:01 pm

High school football is highly dependent on talent-level, size, and speed. Those three things are highly variable in high school football. Teams are constantly in flux from one year to the next. The rate of change in high school football is extremely high. So a consistent product on the field is harder to accomplish although we have 7 on 7's, sports labs, skills camps, and the like helping to mitigate those things. Larger enrollment numbers help produce a more consistent product on the field as well. Even still the very best teams I have seen have always been in the playoffs when teams are dynamically better than they were earlier on the season. It is much more interesting for me to discuss high school teams with mention of specific players or qualities like dominating offensive lines and specific years, than talking about blanket statements about high school football teams as if they are a constant.

That said Dutch Fork is the best team in both Carolinas right now, but maybe North Carolina's best teams this year are better as football seems down in South Carolina. Dutch Fork is also deep even at the qb position. Injuries are not going to do them in no matter what position. As we get into the playoffs we have to remember Dorman was almost state champs last year. Boiling Springs came close the year before.
Hillcrest beat Dutch Fork when they were using Stephen Davis Jr and Matt Colburn in the zone read and seemed unstoppable. The games still have to be played and some team may rise up.
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Re: Dutch Fork 56 River Bluff 14

Postby silverfox92 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:06 pm

[quote=“Colbyc36”]Allen is a powerhouse Fox. I will give you that. St. X in Kentucky is a different story. Are you meaning the Blue Bombers of Ohio? If not, that is a wasted arguement.
Moeller? Byrnes has been there done that, Beat em, along with the Centerville Elks.
And when you reference Florida teams, I did mention STA in above post. Byrnes has been there, done that. Lost by one touchdown, they (STA) went on to be voted national champions. Pahokee has a track record of being NATIONALLY ranked, much like Allen that you reference.
And “those teams” won’t cross the Mississippi? There was only one I mentioned on the other side of the Mississippi.
Reminds me of the old blonde joke.... “A blonde is walking along a river and sees another blonde on the opposite bank, she yells across ‘Excuse me...how do I get to the other side’? The other blonde yells back, ‘You are on the other side’.....
TK wouldn’t do anything other than scrimmage Byrnes back in his Indy days. Locals may deny it, but it is known on the national scene.
Enter BTango in 3, 2, 1.......
Care to compare Dutch Fork’s out of state record with that of Byrnes’? By the numbers?
And let’s talk in state while we are at it, I am sure your sphincter was all drawn up last year when y’all played Dorman. Up here, is where the real football is played. We got the biggest trophy cases in the state.
Read it and weep....[/quote]

DF is far from the level Gaffney and Byrnes were! That is no comparison. Byrnes was once in contention to be #1 team in the nation! Reality check! That was 2009 when DF wasn’t even thought of being a football school. DF is still striving for greatness! Byrnes and Gaffney will go down as two of the all time greats in the state but DFs name will be there as well! Do you remember the last time Byrnes and Dutch Fork played? I Do! The Silver Foxes marched into Nixon Field and ended the rebels season! Much respect for what you all do up there! But we aren’t chopped liver here in the midlands either!!
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Re: Dutch Fork 56 River Bluff 14

Postby Colbyc36 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:06 pm

Your are right Fox. Well spoken.
Perhaps I am acting like Uncle Ricco in search of the glory days. No doubt, DF is the bomb right now. I actually wish you guys would get out of state more and represent SC football. Y’all have the tools and the talent to represent....and represent well.
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Re: Dutch Fork 56 River Bluff 14

Postby silverfox92 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:19 pm

[quote=“Colbyc36”]Your are right Fox. Well spoken.
Perhaps I am acting like Uncle Ricco in search of the glory days. No doubt, DF is the bomb right now. I actually wish you guys would get out of state more and represent SC football. Y’all have the tools and the talent to represent....and represent well.[/quote]

Thanks! I wouldn’t mope much Byrnes is in the best seat to win that tough region 2 and get home field advantage! I wouldn’t be surprised if the Rebs are in Columbia in December! I’m with you on DF playing more out of state teams. Mallard Creek will be on the schedule next year and there’s talk about adding one of Colquitt County from Georgia, Oscar Smith from Virginia, or Rickards from Florida. This years schedule has been very underwhelming.
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Re: Dutch Fork 56 River Bluff 14

Postby btango » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:01 pm

I have seen each of the teams colby listed play in person. DeLaSalle (2 times), St Thomas Aquinas (2), Hoover (6, 3 with Rush as HC), Belle Glades, Pahokee (2), Bosco (2). Throw in the top teams from around twenty strong football states to the list over the last 15 years most on their home fields. Attended games at Allen (unfortunately not their stadium) and the next week at DeLaSalle when they hosted SC schools. Thought both visitors were at a disadvantage with the style of play that was allowed and also with a crucial call in the DF game.

I have not found Pahokee to be on the level of the team that Allen fielded against Dutch Fork. As with Belle Glades a lot of that had to do with coaching. Another aspect was the lack of (1) solid passing game, (2) elite line play, and (3) inferior specialty teams.

“NATIONALLY” ranked can be questionable. Indy was nationally elite from 2001-2004 but not afterwards although they were still ranked a few seasons. Joliet (Illinois) Catholic was nationally ranked for several years. Saw them play and realized they would not be in the mix for a big school title in either North or South Carolina. Thought they were possibly a top four or five team in Charlotte.

Completing schedules especially attempting to setup national games often take on a life of their own. I remember the Byrnes TD Club meeting when it was announced that the planned Hoover game for the upcoming season was not happening. People in attendance asked why and Bobby responded, “they do not want to play us.” In reality it was they cannot play us because Alabama (AHSAA) had changed their dates for league play which kept the game from being finalized. The Rebel fans then went on the message boards, “Hoover is scared to play us.” Funny how little people know that are not truly a member of the program or “involved” in the game. My favorite line once the exact scheduling specifics were out, “if they were not scared they would cancel their league game and play us.”

When you know both coaches involved in a scenario and have conversations with them you can often piece things together although most will slant the story to their benefit. When you sit in a meeting with a group including a coach and AD you find out the true details. Little things that most fans never think about. Kind of like one coach wants a running clock for an entire “game conditions” scrimmage and the other does not so they settle with only the second half being a running clock.
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Re: Dutch Fork 56 River Bluff 14

Postby btango » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:04 pm

[quote=“Colbyc36”]Deep rabbit hole here. I must say Btango knows his stuff, but it was common knowledge on the national scene
that TK dodged games to protect that streak. Call it how you want to Tango, the man skirted.[/quote]

Since fox92 did not chime in I will take it as a clear to engage.

There was much more involved than just scheduling a game and I expect Knotts was selective after 2006 but he still scheduled his two (of three) weakest teams to travel to South Pointe, Ohio and Florida. A lot of caveats to scheduling prior to 2006. There were also teams that talked it up big when Indy was down.

Here are a few questions and with you being an “insider” I am sure you can answer one of these questions immediately and explain why the team that talked the most “skirted” a willing opponent.

1. What transpired in the spring of 2002 regarding out of state play for Indy?
2. Indy’s best team was 2004? Why were no games scheduled for that team?
3. Why did Indy not have any OOS games scheduled for 2005?
4. What were two of the main issues that restricted Indy scheduling out of state or travel games?
5. How many games were available for Indy to schedule after mandatory and restricted opponents?
6. What opponent opted not to do a 50/50 home gate split with Indy in 2006?
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Re: Dutch Fork 56 River Bluff 14

Postby btango » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:54 pm

[quote=“silverfox92”][quote=“Colbyc36”]Ask Allen why they don’t come and visit SC? They expected to blow us out but ran into something different. If that game was played in SC we would have won by 2 TDs. Those refs were atrocious. We haven’t played out of state recently because most teams expect us to come to them instead of coming to SC or settling for a home and home. Colquitt County, Hoover, Rickards, Grayson, or Maryville all had conflict with scheduling with DF because they don’t want to play on the road. [/quote]

At the Dutch Fork v Allen game I had a conversation with the Allen AD and one of his assistant ADs who handled game day football operations. They had several assistant ADs. I learned why Allen likes to play at home and why they are not all that interested in bringing in out of state teams. It is simple and sensible.

Allen expects to draw close to 10,000 of "their" fans for any home game. Season tickets are a premium while regular tickets are $10. When they play a strong visiting team they expect to get a large visitor crowd and if the team is very good more unaffiliated fans will come to the game. From the conversation I came away with the goal for a standard home game attendance to be 13,000 fans paying anywhere from $10 and up. DF brought may be 100 fans plus some interested non affiliated fans that wanted to check out the football. Allen paid them as much, if not more, than they would a local visiting team that brings a lot larger crowd. Simple economics.

I have been told to get them to travel would require a payout of well over $100,000. Home gate lost to include premium season tickets, concessions, merchandise, season parking pass all lost. Pay for team to travel, lodging, food, et al. Sure they can cover it but they are not going to take that kind of financial hit.

Allen played DF at a nearby stadium around Plano that was very nice but not the cathedral at Allen's campus. That stadium had concrete issues and at the time was closed for a year to repair. I love the stadiums with no tracks!
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Re: Dutch Fork 56 River Bluff 14

Postby Colbyc36 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:34 am

[quote=“btango”][quote=“Colbyc36”]Deep rabbit hole here. I must say Btango knows his stuff, but it was common knowledge on the national scene
that TK dodged games to protect that streak. Call it how you want to Tango, the man skirted.[/quote]

Since fox92 did not chime in I will take it as a clear to engage.

There was much more involved than just scheduling a game and I expect Knotts was selective after 2006 but he still scheduled his two (of three) weakest teams to travel to South Pointe, Ohio and Florida. A lot of caveats to scheduling prior to 2006. There were also teams that talked it up big when Indy was down.

Here are a few questions and with you being an “insider” I am sure you can answer one of these questions immediately and explain why the team that talked the most “skirted” a willing opponent.

1. What transpired in the spring of 2002 regarding out of state play for Indy?
2. Indy’s best team was 2004? Why were no games scheduled for that team?
3. Why did Indy not have any OOS games scheduled for 2005?
4. What were two of the main issues that restricted Indy scheduling out of state or travel games?
5. How many games were available for Indy to schedule after mandatory and restricted opponents?
6. What opponent opted not to do a 50/50 home gate split with Indy in 2006?[/quote]


First of all....I love the quotation marks around the word insider. Sweet!
I have never claimed to have inside information on any program. I just post as an observer, I react to my environment just as you do. I see things, I hear things, and I am able to come to my own conclusion. I am not a cow in the herd.
I remember you from USA TODAY super 25 forum (elite 600). You are knowledgeable and I mean no disrespect, but you got your rose colored glasses on. Many ways to spin it here. Elderyahoo (Elder), Kingofthejungle (Prattville), Busman (Moeller), Lakeland1 (Lakeland), BlueBomber (St. X, OH) all agreed back in the day that ole TK had his hand over the snatch.
Interesting you mention that TK was “selective” in 2006. That time frame is exactly when the “skirting” was a being mentioned.
Its obvious you are a NC homer, and all things NC produced, but sometimes you gotta call it like it is.

BTW: Whats your thoughts on deflate gate? All you know is what you have been told....but I am sure you have an opinion about it, right?
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Re: Dutch Fork 56 River Bluff 14

Postby btango » Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:48 am

[quote=“Colbyc36”][quote=“btango”][quote=“Colbyc36”]Deep rabbit hole here. I must say Btango knows his stuff, but it was common knowledge on the national scene
that TK dodged games to protect that streak. Call it how you want to Tango, the man skirted.[/quote]

Since fox92 did not chime in I will take it as a clear to engage.

There was much more involved than just scheduling a game and I expect Knotts was selective after 2006 but he still scheduled his two (of three) weakest teams to travel to South Pointe, Ohio and Florida. A lot of caveats to scheduling prior to 2006. There were also teams that talked it up big when Indy was down.

Here are a few questions and with you being an “insider” I am sure you can answer one of these questions immediately and explain why the team that talked the most “skirted” a willing opponent.

1. What transpired in the spring of 2002 regarding out of state play for Indy?
2. Indy’s best team was 2004? Why were no games scheduled for that team?
3. Why did Indy not have any OOS games scheduled for 2005?
4. What were two of the main issues that restricted Indy scheduling out of state or travel games?
5. How many games were available for Indy to schedule after mandatory and restricted opponents?
6. What opponent opted not to do a 50/50 home gate split with Indy in 2006?[/quote]


First of all....I love the quotation marks around the word insider. Sweet!
I have never claimed to have inside information on any program. I just post as an observer, I react to my environment just as you do. I see things, I hear things, and I am able to come to my own conclusion. I am not a cow in the herd.
I remember you from USA TODAY super 25 forum (elite 600). You are knowledgeable and I mean no disrespect, but you got your rose colored glasses on. Many ways to spin it here. Elderyahoo (Elder), Kingofthejungle (Prattville), Busman (Moeller), Lakeland1 (Lakeland), BlueBomber (St. X, OH) all agreed back in the day that ole TK had his hand over the snatch.
Interesting you mention that TK was “selective” in 2006. That time frame is exactly when the “skirting” was a being mentioned.
Its obvious you are a NC homer, and all things NC produced, but sometimes you gotta call it like it is.

BTW: Whats your thoughts on deflate gate? All you know is what you have been told....but I am sure you have an opinion about it, right?[/quote]

Did not want to do the Q&A? One specifically pertained to "up here".

You point me out as the North Carolina homer while you bow up about the area that you support, “Up here, is where the real football is played. We got the biggest trophy cases in the state. Read it and weep....”

I post about situations that I have direct knowledge of from being involved with them.Other subjects I let it be known it is my opinion. If I have a question about something that interests me I am usually lucky enough to have a relationship with a person directly involved or a contact that allows me to be.

Some of the teams that built the “out of state” name were often very selective in their opponents, also. The coach that beat the drum the loudest was also the most elusive on the matchups. "We'll play anybody" did not always work out that way and I found that there were always caveats and that was with all the teams regardless of state. Playing a title contender or a state champion from a power state is not always the same as playing the best teams from said state. There is usually a reason for classifications.

Regarding the statement from my previous post: “Funny how little people know that are not truly a member of the program or “involved” in the game. When you know both coaches involved in a scenario and have conversations with them you can often piece things together although most will slant the story to their benefit. When you sit in a meeting with a group including a coach and AD you find out the true details. Little things that most fans never think about.” You wrote that we react to our enviroment. I was setting at the table.
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Re: Dutch Fork 56 River Bluff 14

Postby btango » Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:57 am

[quote=“btango”][quote=“Colbyc36”][quote=“btango”][quote=“Colbyc36”]Deep rabbit hole here. I must say Btango knows his stuff, but it was common knowledge on the national scene
that TK dodged games to protect that streak. Call it how you want to Tango, the man skirted.[/quote]

Since fox92 did not chime in I will take it as a clear to engage.

There was much more involved than just scheduling a game and I expect Knotts was selective after 2006 but he still scheduled his two (of three) weakest teams to travel to South Pointe, Ohio and Florida. A lot of caveats to scheduling prior to 2006. There were also teams that talked it up big when Indy was down.

Here are a few questions and with you being an “insider” I am sure you can answer one of these questions immediately and explain why the team that talked the most “skirted” a willing opponent.

1. What transpired in the spring of 2002 regarding out of state play for Indy?
2. Indy’s best team was 2004? Why were no games scheduled for that team?
3. Why did Indy not have any OOS games scheduled for 2005?
4. What were two of the main issues that restricted Indy scheduling out of state or travel games?
5. How many games were available for Indy to schedule after mandatory and restricted opponents?
6. What opponent opted not to do a 50/50 home gate split with Indy in 2006?[/quote]


First of all....I love the quotation marks around the word insider. Sweet!
I have never claimed to have inside information on any program. I just post as an observer, I react to my environment just as you do. I see things, I hear things, and I am able to come to my own conclusion. I am not a cow in the herd.
I remember you from USA TODAY super 25 forum (elite 600). You are knowledgeable and I mean no disrespect, but you got your rose colored glasses on. Many ways to spin it here. Elderyahoo (Elder), Kingofthejungle (Prattville), Busman (Moeller), Lakeland1 (Lakeland), BlueBomber (St. X, OH) all agreed back in the day that ole TK had his hand over the snatch.
Interesting you mention that TK was “selective” in 2006. That time frame is exactly when the “skirting” was a being mentioned.
Its obvious you are a NC homer, and all things NC produced, but sometimes you gotta call it like it is.

BTW: Whats your thoughts on deflate gate? All you know is what you have been told....but I am sure you have an opinion about it, right?[/quote]



Did not want to do the Q&A? One specifically pertained to “up here”.

You point me out as the North Carolina homer while you bow up about the area that you support, “Up here, is where the real football is played. We got the biggest trophy cases in the state. Read it and weep....”

I post about situations that I have direct knowledge of from being involved with them.Other subjects I let it be known it is my opinion. If I have a question about something that interests me I am usually lucky enough to have a relationship with a person directly involved or a contact that allows me to be.

Some of the teams that built the “out of state” name were often very selective in their opponents, also. The coach that beat the drum the loudest was also the most elusive on the matchups. “We’ll play anybody” did not always work out that way and I found that there were always caveats and that was with all the teams regardless of state. Playing a title contender or a state champion from a power state is not always the same as playing the best teams from said state. There is usually a reason for classifications.

Regarding the statement from my previous post: “Funny how little people know that are not truly a member of the program or “involved” in the game. When you know both coaches involved in a scenario and have conversations with them you can often piece things together although most will slant the story to their benefit. When you sit in a meeting with a group including a coach and AD you find out the true details. Little things that most fans never think about.” You wrote that we react to our enviroment. I was setting at the table.[/quote]
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